[胆机制作] 有人试过用开关电源给胆机供电吗

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发表于 2007-10-24 11:57 | 显示全部楼层
我10年前在灯丝上用过了,就两个字——难听。 ,所以还是用回了变压器供电。

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发表于 2007-10-24 13:01 | 显示全部楼层
国外胆机的分体电源中也还是有应用的。 记得JADIS有部前级的分体电源在高压变换部分也是用了开关电源。
0021.jpg

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发表于 2007-10-24 14:22 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 luopingnan 于 2007-10-24 09:53 发表

开关管换成IR的场管啊,这么简单的问题 当然一定要图腾驱动



知道的,别说IR的...随便一种场效应也比结型晶体管频率上得高!发热又小,损耗也低...
但是我图方便,没有时间去实验和改造了,所以才直接换上显示器的行输出管...

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发表于 2007-10-24 22:36 | 显示全部楼层

开关电源做到这份上,还是很值得一用的...

头像被屏蔽

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发表于 2007-10-25 15:17 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽

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发表于 2007-10-25 18:03 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 AKMY5 于 2007-10-23 16:47 发表



也不能,早试过,...小心炸管!
改造实验记得用电脑的ATX进行,因为开关管高压回路里串有个1U/250V的CBB电容,所以管炸了或者一直导通不截止也不会炸机,要是一般的没有这个隔离电容的就要谨慎从事了


至于 ...


今年的全国大学生电子设计竞赛的开关电源,不用场效应管开关很难得大奖,不能怕炸还是要试试的

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发表于 2007-10-25 18:22 | 显示全部楼层
估计不能大众化!!!!!!!!!!

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发表于 2007-10-26 01:02 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 Luxman 于 2007-10-25 18:03 发表


今年的全国大学生电子设计竞赛的开关电源,不用场效应管开关很难得大奖,不能怕炸还是要试试的



是的,谢谢老兄鼓励!   还有,原来没注意到,还有J版的鼓励支持。。。呵呵
开关管换场效应的好处实在太多了。。。但不知道生产ATX电源的厂家为什么就不采用。。。不明白!按我发的图看其实也不很难的,只不过我上班事情多,一直没有时间改就是,思路摆在那里,谁有空按那方法实验一下上来和大家说说吧,我还有个就是用ATX直接改双28V/250W石头机功放电源的计划,实验绕变压器花了不少时间,试了几次,只有电压,没有电流,可能绕的方向不对。。。现在工作忙就丢一边了。。。

其实电脑的ATX我觉得是很好可以利用的资源,找它是很容易的,哪里的电脑城都有很多坏的,直接拿个好的来改成本也不高,值得有兴趣的兄弟试试,改成的话不但效果远远好过牛,成本大大低过牛,重量体积也都远远比牛小。。。呵呵

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发表于 2007-10-26 08:17 | 显示全部楼层
以前坛子里有人发过个PC电源改造的资料,这是我找到的链接
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102096/article.html

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发表于 2007-10-27 22:19 | 显示全部楼层
我对29楼朋友的这个连接非常有兴趣,我也用AT电源改过380V的胆机电源,但因为重扰的变压器次级圈数太多造成漏感大,不知这个连接里的变压器是怎么处理的?还能找到详细资料吗?

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发表于 2008-2-16 10:51 | 显示全部楼层

PC电源改造的资料

PC电源改造的资料,英文版,需要的留信箱,就是29#楼的哪个
好象上传不了!

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社区贡献 论坛贵宾

发表于 2008-2-16 11:24 | 显示全部楼层
如果真能上开关电源供高压,好!

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发表于 2008-2-16 13:02 | 显示全部楼层
输出700v高压! 呵呵

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发表于 2008-2-16 16:34 | 显示全部楼层

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发表于 2008-2-16 20:41 | 显示全部楼层
应该没问题!

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发表于 2008-2-16 22:03 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 蓝色的河 于 2007-10-24 11:57 发表
我10年前在灯丝上用过了,就两个字——难听。 ,所以还是用回了变压器供电。



兄弟你能告诉我理由吗??
你是用的旁热管,还是直热管???
我是搞开关电源的,
我的蛋机6P3P单端和推挽都是开关电源供电,我觉得比工频牛好!!!!
1.电压和电流都稳定
2.开关电源的频率是50K以上
3.旁热管,灯丝只是一个加热体,加速电子的发射...
4.高压我没试过,我想影响也小,因为电源就是一个能力的提供,
他能提高充沛纯净的能源就是他的工作范围,对声音的影响不多.
对音质的影响???

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发表于 2008-2-16 22:23 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 AKMY5 于 2007-10-26 01:02 发表



是的,谢谢老兄鼓励!   还有,原来没注意到,还有J版的鼓励支持。。。呵呵
开关管换场效应的好处实在太多了。。。但不知道生产ATX电源的厂家为什么就不采用。。。不明白!按我发的图看其实也不很难的, ...

现在LCD的开关管全换场效应了(里面有一个2级体的)
ATX电源的厂家为什么就不采用
因为没必要.
开关电源就是变压器是精髓!!!
你要改就必须注意反馈,
开关电源一般有过电压=过电流=过功率保护.
大家在改的时候要注意,不然是不会有输出的.
电压改高了请调TL431的分压点(开关电源的过压反馈)
电流需要调输出端的比较器的正反相的分压点
功率需要调串在开关管上的电阻(一般在0.33---0.57欧姆之间)阻值越小,功率保护点就高

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发表于 2008-2-18 14:07 | 显示全部楼层

奇怪,开关电源已问世这么多年了,怎不见有高压大电流的产品出来?

如有400V以上,电流400MA的成品开关电源,我倒想弄驮玩玩,尤其作“黄金功率”30-40W功率的推挽机,效率高,重量轻,多好啊!

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发表于 2008-2-18 14:14 | 显示全部楼层
利用电脑电源改,可上400-700V,

How to modify a surplus PC power supply to produce a 700V or 400V high-voltage rail.

The completed prototype, highlighting the construction of the output filter (L4 & C9). The positive lead is threaded through a small toroid 5-6 times before being soldered to the rear of the output terminal. The capacitor is soldered directly across the positive and negative terminals as shown.Valve circuits are not yet dead. While transistors are undoubtedly superior in most applications, the valve still offers several unique advantages. This applies first and foremost to its use in power circuits.

There exists a substantial body of opinion that valves outperform transistors in high-quality audio amplifiers, especially in the power output stages. The seriousness of these claims is reflected in the fact that some very reputable manufacturers offer valve amplifiers at the top end of their audio range. For the home constructor, reasonable-quality valve audio amplifiers can be made for a modest outlay using designs available freely on the Internet. These amplifiers are generally based on an EL34 or KT88 valve pair in the output stage, with both valves being readily available in Australia.

Another common application for valves is in the output stages of RF power amplifiers. They will operate satisfactorily at frequencies of up to about 30MHz, delivering up to 50W per valve. Their main advantage over RF power transistors, apart from being somewhat cheaper, is that they are much more tolerant of fault conditions.

When tuning a new power amplifier design, parasitic oscillations are often encountered which can easily destroy expensive RF power transistors. The valve, however, will live to see another day. Valves are therefore much more suitable for experimentation in new designs.

Although valves are readily obtainable, one of the main problems in their exploitation is the lack of suitable power supply transformers. Both the EL34 and KT88 are rated at a maximum plate voltage of 800V, with supply voltages in the order of 500-600V needed to extract maximum power and linearity. However, the only readily available high-voltage power transformers are isolating transformers, which deliver 240V, and magnetron transformers from microwave ovens, which deliver 1500V or more.

Clearly, both of these are unsuitable for our application.

The easiest way around this is to modify the switchmode power supply of a personal computer (PC), as explored in a previous issue of SILICON CHIP (October 2003). The older AT power supplies are readily available and have now become a surplus item. They are designed to produce about 200-300W, which is in the right ballpark for our application. For little cost, they include a ready-made PC board and almost all of the components we need for a HV switching power supply.

Moreover, due to its high operating frequency, the switchmode power supply offers much better regulation and far less ripple than can be obtained from a traditional valve power supply based on 50Hz AC rectification and smoothing.


Fig.1: the power section of the modified high-voltage supply. Using the values shown, the output is a well-regulated 700V, suitable for driving two power valves. You can also build a 400V version by winding T1 & L2 accordingly and selecting alternate values for capacitors C1 & C2 and the R3-R5 divider string (see text).Basic considerations

At first, it would appear that getting a PC power supply circuit to operate at high voltages involves just a few changes to the procedure outlined in the previous SILICON CHIP article. In particular, the number of power transformer secondary turns would have to be increased and all diodes, capacitors, and inductors would have to be replaced with high-voltage types.

The resistive ladder used to sense output voltage would also have to be changed. However, after a few trials, I found that the switching power transistors did not last long and it soon became clear that getting the circuit to operate at 700V would entail a more substantial redesign.

The main problem is that the volts-per-turn ratio used in the secondary winding of a standard PC ferrite-cored transformer (operating in step-down mode) is about one turn per volt output. This means that 700 secondary turns would be required for an output of 700V.

And that’s where we quickly run into problems. The power handling capacity of a coil, without considering insulation, is almost directly proportional to its volume. For example, if we wish to double the output voltage produced by a transformer, we have to double the number of secondary turns, and thus the coil length. The resistance of the coil will also approximately double.

However, if the coil is to deliver the same power, the output current is halved so that the coil’s "ohmic" (I2R) losses are halved. To compensate for this, we can halve the wire’s cross-sectional area so that the overall volume occupied by the coil is unchanged. Unfortunately, a multi-layered coil operating at high voltages and frequencies requires insulation whose thickness increases roughly proportionally to the voltage. As a result, our coil does not follow the volume law.

In fact, it is almost impossible to fit a 700-turn winding with adequate insulation into the space available around the core of a standard transformer.

The reason for the large number of secondary turns is that the original PC supply uses a full-wave centre-tapped rectifier configuration, which requires twice the number of turns of a full-wave non-centre-tapped configuration. However, even a non-centre-tapped configuration causes problems.

For a start, it is difficult to fit even 350 turns in the space available around the core. Also, the bridge configuration has no "cool" end of the secondary winding, with both ends alternatively switched between ground and maximum voltage. This means that heavy-duty insulation needs to be used between the primary and secondary windings.

Another problem is related to the mode in which the PC power supply operates. It relies on varying the duty cycle of the rectified mains pulses applied to the transformer to control the output voltage. This means that the secondary rectifier and filter network must be designed to supply an output voltage dependent on that duty cycle. A simple capacitive filtering network is unsuitable, as it would charge to the peak secondary voltage regardless of duty cycle.

The way this dependence is normally introduced is to place an inductor of appropriate value between the rectifying diode and the capacitor, forming an LC filter. However, combining an LC filter with a bridge rectifier does not clamp the secondary voltage, allowing large spikes to appear across the primary during transient conditions.


Fig.2: the schematic of a typical control section based on the TL494 PWM controller. The only changes needed here are the removal of the over-voltage detection circuitry and the addition of an over-current indicator, based on Q7 and an LED.Voltage doubler solution

The schematic diagram in Fig.1 shows a solution to these problems. It’s based on a voltage doubler circuit fed by a relatively low secondary voltage, making the secondary winding easy to fit around the core. A filter inductor (L2) introduces the duty cycle dependence necessary for pulse-width modulation (PWM), while diodes D1 & D2 clamp the secondary voltage, thereby limiting voltage spikes across the primary.

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发表于 2008-2-18 14:18 | 显示全部楼层

继续

There is sufficient space left around the former for a second 12.6V/2A secondary to feed the filaments of two power valves. This winding is also used to power the switchmode controller circuitry and the cooling fan.

The price we pay for going to the voltage doubler configuration is reduced power handling. The load current of the centre-tapped configuration has a large DC component and only about 20% ripple, whereas in the voltage doubler configuration current must drop to zero at some point in the cycle. This means that the average current is at best half the maximum current. And since the latter is limited by the saturation current rating of the transformer, the HV circuit can deliver just over 60% of the power of the original supply.

This does not apply to the 12.6V centre-tapped secondary, however. So, from an original power rating of 200W, 125W is now available for the HV supply. Alternatively, the unit can supply 20W for the filament supply and about 105W for the HV supply. This is more than sufficient to operate two power valves.

The circuit is capable of excellent performance. It maintains full regulation at up to 125W, with ripple at 2V peak-to-peak, or 0.3% at full power. This is quite acceptable, as most of the ripple is at twice the switching frequency (60kHz) and so is inaudible.

The 100Hz hum component is only 0.08%, which shows the excellent regulation of the TL494, since the rectified mains source contains 13% of 100Hz ripple at full power. Over-current protection is retained, with a LED added to indicate when it is active.


The first step is to remove all of the low-voltage components on the secondary side in preparation for the HV rebuild.Circuit operation

The schematic of the power section of the HV supply is shown in Fig.1. The mains input and associated switching transistor circuitry remain unchanged, as indicated by the shaded portion of the circuit.

Typical control circuitry based on a TL494 PWM controller is shown in Fig.2. There is quite a bit of variation in the control circuitry between different manufacturers, so your circuit might differ somewhat. This is especially true if the over-voltage and over-current protection in your supply is based on the LM339 comparator rather than on discrete transistors, as shown. Fortunately, there are few modifications to this part of the circuit.

Operation is quite straightforward, with the design based on a conventional half-bridge "forward converter" topology. The 240VAC mains is first rectified and then filtered by the capacitive divider C6 & C7 to provide two supplies at ?70V DC. This is switched alternately through the ferrite transformer by power transistors Q1 and Q2.

A 1μF capacitor connected in series with the transformer primary limits the current by forming an 8 load with inductor L2. This provides some protection in case of a shorted secondary, which effectively occurs at startup before C1 & C2 are charged as well as during fault conditions. Transformer T3 is used to sense the magnitude of the primary current for over-current protection.

The secondary winding develops a voltage of 502V using the specified turns ratio. For 400V designs, the secondary voltage reduces to 319V. This is rectified in the voltage doubler (D3 & D4) and smoothed by an LC filter (L2, C1 & C2).

During the "on" period, energy coupled to the secondary winding finds a current path through L2 and into the load and output filter capacitors. During the "off" period, the energy stored in L2 is discharged into the load.
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